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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Post Foundation Licence holders on DMR?
:scratch:

As there aren't any "Ham" radios for DMR how do FL's use the mode as the FL does not allow holders to use converted PMR radios as they aren't "type approved" for amateur radio use?

Are DMR users snobs not wanting to associate with FL holders? ;)

Another reason to use a DV mode which was designed by amateurs for use by amateurs and not some cobbled together ex-pmr system.

Mike G1ZRN :D


Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:52 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Post Re: Foundation Licence holders on DMR?
G1ZRN wrote:
:scratch:

As there aren't any "Ham" radios for DMR how do FL's use the mode as the FL does not allow holders to use converted PMR radios as they aren't "type approved" for amateur radio use?

Are DMR users snobs not wanting to associate with FL holders? ;)

Another reason to use a DV mode which was designed by amateurs for use by amateurs and not some cobbled together ex-pmr system.

Mike G1ZRN :D

I was lead to believe that FL licence holders can use ex PMR equipment, pre modified, and power restricted, on suitable amateur bands, if mods were done by full licence holders!
And even that proviso has been "clouded" in recent times!
If they aquire, a within power limits, pre modified DMR radio, with modifications done by an approved licence level holder, on amateur bands their licence covers, whats the problem?
To be honest, I find all this push for DMR radio's, and some sort of "alternative digital network", as complete willy waving, but thats just me!
I see no problems with them aquiring, and using suitably power restricted and pre-modified ex PMR amateur band restricted equipment :scratch:
What makes DMR any more special than say 4 meters, where they are perfectly entitled to aquire such pre-modified ex PMR equipment :scratch:
In fact one well known outlet openly advertised converted ex PMR 4 meter radio's, suitably power restricted, as "Ideal for FL licence holders"!

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:00 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Post Re: Foundation Licence holders on DMR?
G0BHD wrote:
G1ZRN wrote:
:scratch:

As there aren't any "Ham" radios for DMR how do FL's use the mode as the FL does not allow holders to use converted PMR radios as they aren't "type approved" for amateur radio use?

Are DMR users snobs not wanting to associate with FL holders? ;)

Another reason to use a DV mode which was designed by amateurs for use by amateurs and not some cobbled together ex-pmr system.

Mike G1ZRN :D

I was lead to believe that FL licence holders can use ex PMR equipment, pre modified, and power restricted, on suitable amateur bands, if mods were done by full licence holders!
And even that proviso has been "clouded" in recent times!
If they aquire, a within power limits, pre modified DMR radio, with modifications done by an approved licence level holder, on amateur bands their licence covers, whats the problem?
To be honest, I find all this push for DMR radio's, and some sort of "alternative digital network", as complete willy waving, but thats just me!
I see no problems with them aquiring, and using suitably power restricted and pre-modified ex PMR amateur band restricted equipment :scratch:
What makes DMR any more special than say 4 meters, where they are perfectly entitled to aquire such pre-modified ex PMR equipment :scratch:
In fact one well known outlet openly advertised converted ex PMR 4 meter radio's, suitably power restricted, as "Ideal for FL licence holders"!

Personaly when I see the likes of this:

**ONE DAY OFFER**

For today ONLY we are letting the DM4400 UHF go for £299 inc vat.


And taking into account the current amateur based DMR infrastructure, I see it as an expensive "wish list" to be perfectly honest! :rolleyes:
Lets face it, its taken many years for D-Star to lose its "elitist" aura, with more radios becoming available at sensible prices, and the mode now included on some multiband offerings, plus the advent of a plethera of DV dongles and the likes, backed up by a good world wide infrastructure!
Why on earth try to start another digital alternative, that has less current infrastructure, and is already gaining a eputation for being somewhat "clicky" in the know embraced?
Make it commonly available, on amateur designed equipment, with a good world wide infrastructure, and it might, just might compete!
At the moment it remains firmly in the realms of "clicky" as far as I am concerned, and of no interest, nor benefit whatsoever!

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:19 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Post Re: Foundation Licence holders on DMR?
I run both DSTAR and DMR so I can compare the two. DMR has better audio and does not suffer from R2D2 break up in weak signal areas. DSTar has the direct call facility which I used to call a UK ham from Dayton hamvention last month which worked well. The DMR developers say they are working on getting that facility too.
I have have a ID5100 ID31A and a 2820 for DStar and a DM4601 for DMR but I think I will be selling some of the DSTAR gear before the mass exit from Dstar happens in a year or so.
The infrastructure for DMR seems to be growing rapidly and looks set to overtake DSTAR in the UK and US. The only thing holding DMR back is the radios don't have Icom,Yeasu or Kenwood badges on them.


Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:14 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Post Re: Foundation Licence holders on DMR?
willow70 wrote:
The infrastructure for DMR seems to be growing rapidly and looks set to overtake DSTAR in the UK and US. The only thing holding DMR back is the radios don't have Icom,Yeasu or Kenwood badges on them.

That sounds very optimistic to me. :)

I would hazard a guess that the lack of infrastructure plus the radios not being made for the amateur market will hold it back a lot longer.


Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:21 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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VHS or Betamax.?
Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.?
27 or 934.?
Plasma or LED.?

I think I will wait until the masses vote with their wallets and the infrastructure is in place.

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Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:33 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Quote:
willow70 wrote:
The infrastructure for DMR seems to be growing rapidly and looks set to overtake DSTAR in the UK and US. The only thing holding DMR back is the radios don't have Icom,Yeasu or Kenwood badges on them.

Better audio or not, I think given the time taken for D-Star to get a decent foothold infrastructure, that is somewhat optimistic!
Do DMR radios, also do analogue FM?
One of the selling points of D-Star single and dual band radios, and now of course included on some multiband shack in a box offerings, is all your eggs are not in one basket, you have access to an alternative mode!
Do DMR radios do "analogue", allowing simple FM simplex and duplex contacts, as well as their no doubt excellent digital platform?
I honestly don't know, please enlighten me!

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Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:40 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Post Re: Foundation Licence holders on DMR?
The audio on DV is quite good considering it uses 6.25K and in that you also have text data transfer integrated into that bandwidth which to me is really good when compared to the 25Khz spacing that seems to be used with regularity on FM analogue conversations.


Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:47 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Post Re: Foundation Licence holders on DMR?
2E0JGR wrote:
The audio on DV is quite good considering it uses 6.25K and in that you also have text data transfer integrated into that bandwidth which to me is really good when compared to the 25Khz spacing that seems to be used with regularity on FM analogue conversations.

:D 25 kHz or not, you have more chance of a contact on old FM, than DMR! :D
And there are not that many these days plodding away on 25 kHz FM deviation! :D
What use is band saving bandwidth restrictions, when the band is hardly "shoulder to shoulder", can't find a slot, as it is! :lol:
The bandwidth aspect, would be the least selling point to me!
Arguably CW is far more bandwidth friendly! :D
If I want to "text" someone, I already have a system to hand that works just fine! ;)

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Last edited by G0BHD on Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:56 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Post Re: Foundation Licence holders on DMR?
m6nta wrote:
I think I will wait until the masses vote with their wallets and the infrastructure is in place.

The infrastructure is already in place for dstar and expanding on a daily basis.


Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:57 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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The info on DMR is on this website that gives some idea of the coverage. http://www.dmr-marc.net/
Most DMR radios do analogue as well as digital, the exception is the little SL4000 which is designed for hotels receptionists etc and only has 2 watt out.
There is a developer in the US who has produced a simple hand held that he has had manufactured in China, it is the CS700 and it sells for £120 in the US .He says he will be producing
a dual mode DMR /Dstar/analogue model called the CS7000 later this year.
http://www.va3xpr.net/connect-systems-p ... tar-radio/

As I said before I run both sytems but I feel that DMR is going to slowly over take Dstar.


Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:08 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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willow70 wrote:
The info on DMR is on this website that gives some idea of the coverage. http://www.dmr-marc.net/
Most DMR radios do analogue as well as digital, the exception is the little SL4000 which is designed for hotels receptionists etc and only has 2 watt out.
There is a developer in the US who has produced a simple hand held that he has had manufactured in China, it is the CS700 and it sells for £120 in the US .He says he will be producing
a dual mode DMR /Dstar/analogue model called the CS7000 later this year.
http://www.va3xpr.net/connect-systems-p ... tar-radio/

As I said before I run both sytems but I feel that DMR is going to slowly over take Dstar.

Ok fine, now another question, how many of these radios have direct keyboard frequency access and programming, for the amateur "on the fly", as I have seen adverts, on here, stating the sellers will "pre-program" the desired frequencies, and required data for you, prior to sale, etc.
So are they simple keyboard accessed programmable, for frequency, mode, whatever, or in the main pre-programmed at source and supplied?

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Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:15 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Post Re: Foundation Licence holders on DMR?
G0BHD wrote:
So are they simple keyboard accessed programmable, for frequency, mode, whatever, or in the main pre-programmed at source and supplied?
From what i have seen so far they are pmr products designed to be supplied pre programmed by the sellers.

One is a system designed by amateurs for their use and the other is a commercial unit being adapted to use by amateurs.


Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:19 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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G0UEX wrote:
G0BHD wrote:
So are they simple keyboard accessed programmable, for frequency, mode, whatever, or in the main pre-programmed at source and supplied?
From what i have seen so far they are pmr products designed to be supplied pre programmed by the sellers.

One is a system designed by amateurs for their use and the other is a commercial unit being adapted to use by amateurs.

Well in that case, until they become fully keyboard accessible, and "dabbleable", by what are at the end of the day "amateurs" who like some "control" over their chosen equipment, I think its not going to be taking the hobby "by storm" just yet!
At the end of the day, this is amateur radio, it is no business radio, where preprogrammed at source equipment is not only the usual way of aquiring said items, it is actualy desirable!
We love to dabble, and most amateurs like that dabbling, to be available on the "item in front of them", not either pre-programmed and supplied, or involving having to "plug the pc in" everytime you want to make adjustments and corrections!
At least D-Star is user, from radio, adjustable, in the main!

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Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:28 am
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 Foundation Licence holders on DMR? 
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Post Re: Foundation Licence holders on DMR?
Programming Digital radios seems a challenge on both Dstar and DMR . I have yet to successfully link repeaters on dstar except by using the direct call method. Even the nice display and gps system on the 5100
does not seem to help me. The idea of programming a mobile with all the double space, B, Gs and Ls on the move would invite disaster.
DMR presents other issues with the cost and availability of "genuine" Motorola software or delving into the dodgy areas of the internet. The CS700 software is downloadable for free off his website so that is not an issue. The requirement for reprogramming after the initial setup on DMR is minimal as only new repeaters would need to be added and the UK DMR people are happy to do that for you at most rallies.
Back to the original subject of the thread I see no issue with foundation licence holders setting up DMR equipment as it is just a keyboard job and they are probably more familiar with PCs etc than some of us dinasaurs from the AM era.


Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:55 am
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