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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
The RSGB has released an interim report - Determination of impact of VDSL interference on the Amateur Radio Service

The RSGB has been measuring the levels of Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) from VDSL broadband since 2014. Work has included measurements on test sites and at Amateur Stations where RFI was reported as degrading communication. A summary of the levels for 92 locations reported in 2016 recorded typical RFI levels for the VDSL bands. A detailed report covering eleven reported problem locations dated 28/9/2016 was produced, shared with and discussed with BT, Openreach and Ofcom.

As a result of this meeting limited observations from Ofcom concluded that levels observed at amateurs’ premises did not constitute Harmful Interference. RSGB refuted this and a further set of tests were proposed.

This is the interim report on that further set of tests.

RSGB Forum - VDSL Emission Investigation
http://www.thersgb.org/forums/index.php ... #post-3406

VDSL Interim Report PDF
http://rsgb.org/main/files/2018/10/Impa ... report.pdf

VDSL RFI - RSGB-Ofcom Meeting June 21, 2017
http://rsgb.org/main/files/2012/12/VDSL ... 1-2017.pdf

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Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:49 am
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Re: Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
As you will see in radcom a big push from the RSGB regarding VDSL interference. Luckily the week before the latest article I had purchased a nice new SDRplay RSp1A. the article explains the process using an SDRplay / sdr receiver and recording 0.5 seconds 2MHz wide pure audio on whatever band you think you are getting VDSL interference on. Once the audio is recorded you open the.WAV file in software called lelantos which identifies in the audio clip the VDSL tones.

Having done this I saw 5 different VDSL signals on 30m and 4 on 40m and 3 on 80m going all the way up to the bottom of 14MHz. I competed the proforma template of complaint and emailed it in to the DEO@ofcom. Within 1 hour I got a phone call from them saying that I needed to submit a log of 2-3 days worth showing that contacts couldn't be made etc because fo the interference as it must be harmful. So I did that and emailed in the log. They advised that this complaint would be passed to BT open reach. 5 Days later I got the following response.


INVESTIGATION OUTCOME
=================
The following response was received from Openreach:
We have finished reviewing the VDSL performance of all services within 250 metres of the radio amateurs home and our closing statement is below.

I have investigated the network in the area of the complainant and it appears to be fault free, but there is significant evidence of home wiring issues arising on some of the neighbouring circuits. Indeed there are 54 services identified with home wiring issues (within the 250m radius), this is a considerable number and somewhat higher than average. This could be down to several factors such as the use of distributed micro filters rather than a managed installation with a central splitter or star wiring in the home, which can result in increased emission levels.
Openreach are not in a position to change such installations without a job being raised by the Communication Provider as this is a chargeable service. There is no further action we can take at this point.

I can also see from the radio amateurs google map overview that the pole appears to be at the end of his garden, I would, therefore, assume that our overhead cables will, in the case of his direct neighbour at least, be run in parallel with his antenna. This is unlikely to be an ideal set up but given the positioning of the garden there is probably little the radio amateur can do to avoid this situation.

Our investigation is complete and closed
================

So overall I can see the need for amateurs to put complaints into Ofcom so they can make the communication providers ensure that filters or other methods of sending the data, which is less harmful is used.


Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:06 pm
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Re: Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
Yup I had a similar response a while back. They said there was evidence of unwanted radiation because of line imbalance but as the imbalance was caused by poor wiring in a customers premises they couldn't help. They wouldn't even say which house it was.

Looks like a standard 'get out of jail free' card for them. You could have 1000 hams submit complaints and it would make no difference.


Sat May 02, 2020 10:42 pm
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Re: Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
The May RadCom carried a call to action from the RSGB President, asking everyone who is suffering from HF interference due to broadband VDSL to submit a complaint to Ofcom. This edition of RadCom is now on the RSGB website as a sample issue for all radio amateurs. Find it at www.rsgb.org/sampleradcom. We urge all who are suffering from VDSL interference to submit complaints to Ofcom. Details of how to report interference can be found in the May edition of RadCom and on the RSGB website at www.rsgb.org/vdsl-reporting. Many amateurs have already submitted complaints to Ofcom and we would like to thank those for doing so. But we would like yet more people to submit complaints. We have to persuade Ofcom to take action against this threat to our hobby.

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Thu May 07, 2020 6:57 pm
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Re: Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
VDSL interference
The RSGB report that in many areas of the UK, all of the HF amateur bands up to and including 20m are being blighted by interference from VDSL (Very high-speed Digital Subscriber Line).

This is the most widespread means of providing residential broadband internet services in the UK. Ofcom, which is responsible for investigating radio interference, says that it receives, on average, only six complaints per year on the topic and won’t take any significant action.

The RSGB urges all who are suffering from VDSL interference to submit complaints to Ofcom. Many have already submitted complaints to Ofcom but they would like yet more people to submit complaints. Ofcom has yet to be persuaded to take action.

https://rsgb.org/main/technical/emc/vds ... reporting/

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Sat May 16, 2020 9:05 am
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Re: Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
G1PIE wrote:
VDSL interference
The RSGB report that in many areas of the UK, all of the HF amateur bands up to and including 20m are being blighted by interference from VDSL (Very high-speed Digital Subscriber Line).

This is the most widespread means of providing residential broadband internet services in the UK. Ofcom, which is responsible for investigating radio interference, says that it receives, on average, only six complaints per year on the topic and won’t take any significant action.

The RSGB urges all who are suffering from VDSL interference to submit complaints to Ofcom. Many have already submitted complaints to Ofcom but they would like yet more people to submit complaints. Ofcom has yet to be persuaded to take action.

https://rsgb.org/main/technical/emc/vds ... reporting/

Problem is that I bet most of the users will not know it is VDSL as it can appear as white noise that carries a very strong signal, took me a little research to figure it out. Noted that the RSGB has done a write-up on Radcom and this may spark more amateurs into researching and reporting it. As it has killed my hobby from home.


Sat May 16, 2020 9:56 am
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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I don't know what the hell BT have done to the system in the last 12 months around here as the phone lines are spewing some right crap out, it seems to be notched out around here but they're parts it isn't and it's encroaching on the bottom of 144mhz.
It's on poles and lines, by the Christ you go stand under the poles with a handheld radio listening to commercial radio and it will wipe it out, when driving under the lines in my van it wipes out MW radio.
27.500-28.00 mhz is full of it but that doesn't bother me and no NBs or x phasing will touch it and that's on the lines and I'm wondering how long before it shifts up.
Ofcom will be fully aware of the crap and so will Bt, after a 9 month battle with PLT next door and getting no further I have no fighting spirit left in these matters and will just sell up if the ham bands get infested.
Let's face it we've been sold out.


Sat May 16, 2020 10:10 am
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Re: Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
M0VMT wrote:
I don't know what the hell BT have done to the system in the last 12 months around here as the phone lines are spewing some right crap out, it seems to be notched out around here but they're parts it isn't and it's encroaching on the bottom of 144mhz.
It's on poles and lines, by the Christ you go stand under the poles with a handheld radio listening to commercial radio and it will wipe it out, when driving under the lines in my van it wipes out MW radio.
27.500-28.00 mhz is full of it but that doesn't bother me and no NBs or x phasing will touch it and that's on the lines and I'm wondering how long before it shifts up.
Ofcom will be fully aware of the crap and so will Bt, after a 9 month battle with PLT next door and getting no further I have no fighting spirit left in these matters and will just sell up if the ham bands get infested.
Let's face it we've been sold out.

I have been noticing that Mark, at first I thought the van antenna was playing up, so checked it all over and no problems found at all, then I thought perhaps the inbuilt radio is chucking a wobbly on AM band, plugged the antenna connection into an old Pioneer car radio I still have knocking around, with view to swapping them if the currently fitted radio had gone faulty, and same results.
Always when passing under or near to Phone line overheads.
What it is they are spewing to do this I have no idea, once away from them, radio performs fine again.

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Sat May 16, 2020 10:21 am
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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The technical term I've heard them use Dave is rein, a engineer told me and they stand under the pole to detect this lol.
They know what they are doing I'm convinced, I will be cutting my phone line as I don't have a landline and wrapping it around the pole as I don't want it but that's for a dark night but it's going!


Sat May 16, 2020 10:43 am
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Well I've just been looking on the scope and nigh on every band hf -vhf is surrounded by nothing but crud s6 - s9 of noise some is making it's way to the CW portions and top end of our allocations....it's a proper mess and I ain't bothering with ofcom or reporting it to the RSGB as it's a waste of my life time on this planet :D


Tue May 19, 2020 12:41 pm
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Re: Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
M0VMT wrote:
The technical term I've heard them use Dave is rein, a engineer told me and they stand under the pole to detect this lol.
They know what they are doing I'm convinced, I will be cutting my phone line as I don't have a landline and wrapping it around the pole as I don't want it but that's for a dark night but it's going!


Why cut it? Inductively couple it to a pulse generator (spark gap) and send some interference of your own to the heart of the problem, see how they like it

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Tue May 19, 2020 1:18 pm
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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GW6RRL wrote:
M0VMT wrote:
The technical term I've heard them use Dave is rein, a engineer told me and they stand under the pole to detect this lol.
They know what they are doing I'm convinced, I will be cutting my phone line as I don't have a landline and wrapping it around the pole as I don't want it but that's for a dark night but it's going!


Why cut it? Inductively couple it to a pulse generator (spark gap) and send some interference of your own to the heart of the problem, see how they like it


Good idea :lol:


Tue May 19, 2020 1:24 pm
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Re: Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
On a separate note I set fire to my neighbours internal phone box with RF from an inverted L that I had up for the time. I did fit her a ice new filtered phone box tho afterwords ;)


Tue May 19, 2020 5:29 pm
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Re: Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
VERON reports IARU Region-1 President Don Beattie, G3BJ, is ringing the alarm on WPT-EV. WPT-EV stands for Wireless Power Transmission for Electric Vehicles, wireless car chargers with high power 20 kW!

A translation of the VERON post reads:

Don says, “The discussions about WPT-EV have reached a point where they are moving from the technical to the political arena. Discussions with a national regulator indicate that we must now take action at the national level. The amateur service, but also other telecommunication services will experience the consequences of WPT-EV.”

Don continues: “I ask the associations to write to their national regulator and preferably explain in person why radio amateurs are so concerned. Because the long charging time with WPT-EV, the location close to houses and the large amount of harmonics produced, radio communication in the built environment can become very difficult. Models show that this also applies to the wider environment of a WPT-EV installation. Broadcasters, stationary and mobile services share these concerns. They provided input for this in Report 289.”
https://www.ecodocdb.dk/download/2fed7e ... %20289.pdf

Don Beattie adds, “In the interests of the future of amateur radio, we need to get the attention of national regulators. So will you please take action? ” Don is on hand to assist national associations should they require further documentation. "This is about the future of amateur radio!"

The discussion about WPT-EV has been going on for a long time. We already published about it in 2018 and the discussion continued in 2019. In particular at the World Radiocommunication Conference 2019 (WRC-19), the interference caused by WPT-EV was an important item on the agenda for radio amateurs.

The wireless charging of electric cars is done with large coils. One of them on the ground under the vehicle, the second in the car. Typically about 22 kW is transferred wirelessly through those coils. This is done with frequencies between 79 and 90 kHz. Technical and operational standards for WPT-EV are under development. The results of early studies in Europe are recorded in CEPT ECC report 289 : “Wireless Power Transmission (WPT) systems for electrical vehicles (EV) operating within 79-90 kHz band”. The message from the report is clear: radio communications services, not just radio amateurs, see a major threat to their work. And that because of the expected high level of unwanted radiation from WPT-EV. In short, it doesn't look good.


RF pollution from electric vehicle wireless chargers
VERON reports IARU Region-1 President Don Beattie, G3BJ, is ringing the alarm on WPT-EV. WPT-EV stands for Wireless Power Transmission for Electric Vehicles, wireless car chargers with high power 20 kW!

A translation of the VERON post reads:

Don says, “The discussions about WPT-EV have reached a point where they are moving from the technical to the political arena. Discussions with a national regulator indicate that we must now take action at the national level. The amateur service, but also other telecommunication services will experience the consequences of WPT-EV.”

Don continues: “I ask the associations to write to their national regulator and preferably explain in person why radio amateurs are so concerned. Because the long charging time with WPT-EV, the location close to houses and the large amount of harmonics produced, radio communication in the built environment can become very difficult. Models show that this also applies to the wider environment of a WPT-EV installation. Broadcasters, stationary and mobile services share these concerns. They provided input for this in Report 289.”
https://www.ecodocdb.dk/download/2fed7e ... %20289.pdf

Don Beattie adds, “In the interests of the future of amateur radio, we need to get the attention of national regulators. So will you please take action? ” Don is on hand to assist national associations should they require further documentation. "This is about the future of amateur radio!"

The discussion about WPT-EV has been going on for a long time. We already published about it in 2018 and the discussion continued in 2019. In particular at the World Radiocommunication Conference 2019 (WRC-19), the interference caused by WPT-EV was an important item on the agenda for radio amateurs.

The wireless charging of electric cars is done with large coils. One of them on the ground under the vehicle, the second in the car. Typically about 22 kW is transferred wirelessly through those coils. This is done with frequencies between 79 and 90 kHz. Technical and operational standards for WPT-EV are under development. The results of early studies in Europe are recorded in CEPT ECC report 289 : “Wireless Power Transmission (WPT) systems for electrical vehicles (EV) operating within 79-90 kHz band”. The message from the report is clear: radio communications services, not just radio amateurs, see a major threat to their work. And that because of the expected high level of unwanted radiation from WPT-EV. In short, it doesn't look good.



The graph shows that the emissions defined by the CEPT and ITU at 10 m distance are about 30-45 dB above the current noise levels. Imagine a street where a car is charging every 10 meters. What do you think that means for radio reception? Unfortunately, the WPT-EV developers in CISPR are asking for these kinds of limits. Limits, which have a serious negative effect on the radio spectrum.

WPT-EV developers state that current noise levels have long been above ITU-R P.373-13 levels. However, extensive measurements in Germany show that the above-mentioned levels are still largely relevant

Source VERON https://tinyur.com/NetherlandsVERON


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Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:28 am
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 Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service 
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Post Re: Impact of VDSL interference on Amateur Radio Service
What the RSGB needs to do is sort out a free RTL-SDR.com dongle for every RSGB member with instructions on how to use it to find and report the interference.
They could tape it to the front of Radcom.

They could even use it as a membership incentive.

Without doing this they just will not get enough people checking and complaining.

So, how's about it RSGB? Use the membership money for what the members paid for.

Just a thought.....

Mark

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Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:11 am
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