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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
Im not sure it should controversial Steve, the simple fact is that by sending too soon the student can learn to send perfect CW of their own unique brand!! I'm not saying that they WILL or that they cannot learn to send beautiful textbook Morse code, just that there iss a risk. Is it worth it? I argue it isnt

D

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David. G4YVM


Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:52 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
G4YVM wrote:
Im not sure it should controversial Steve, the simple fact is that by sending too soon the student can learn to send perfect CW of their own unique brand!! I'm not saying that they WILL or that they cannot learn to send beautiful textbook Morse code, just that there iss a risk. Is it worth it? I argue it isnt

D


I wouldn't argue with you, and it makes sense.

Controversial because it was at the time, there were two strongly opposing views.

Now with the luxury of forums etc., it is easier to get a wider opinion, where as before there were people like my father saying the same as you and my father in law saying the opposite. Ask at the club, and you would get similar variations.

I would agree it may not be worth the risk, and from my comments you will see I was aware of those possibilities.

And own unique brands are not desirable, I hear a station the other day whose dits were about 2/3 the length of his dahs, you would no doubt have copied it OK, I could not copy it to make much of it.

I did also say I don't use it much, I remember the learning process well, so I trust your thoughts will be given the weight they deserve

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Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:16 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
Cheers Steve. Anyone who fancies their own unique brand just needs to invest in a bug key!!

D

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David. G4YVM


Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:10 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
and remember practice makes permanent
only correct practice will make perfect and once something is learned its difficult to unlearn if its wrong.

and regards sending.. Jmo mind, how can you send good morse until you now what it sounds like?
OTOH sending will help the brain to memorize the patterns.
Catch 22 I think.
Keep at it John it is worth it in the end. ;)

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Neill
Its not the class of licence the amateur holds thats important but the class of bias the prat applies to his amplifier


Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:51 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
I don't know who first came out with the "Don't send until you can receive" bollocks, but I wish he hadn't.

As long as you are happy with the basic 'swing' and timing of morse, you can teach yourself by sending it.

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Chris.


Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:10 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
So evidently the method you are using is not working, try another method.
Margaret Mills book by RSGB if you can find it .
TMO EISH as first lesson.
Then add AUV.
Then add NDB.
And so on.

20 wpm is in my opinion far too fast, try 14 or so. And if you are writing it down, try to get in the habit of writing it down one letter later.
You hear A.
You hear B, but write A
You hear C, but write B.
You are screwing up brain, because you are trying to hear one thing, but writing another. But doing it that way you will find that taking 25 is easy, once you have learned it. The temptation is to stab at the page to get it down, but when you get to a word gap there is a big chasm. Hand movements are slow and flowing, rather than hurried.

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Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:24 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
Thanks for the suggestions all, I shall try dropping the speed and increasing the spacing between each character.

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Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:51 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
Hi
Can you explain what the bit I highlighted means I don't understand what you mean??

Thanks
Trevor
EI2GLB


2E0JGR wrote:
OK, I am stumped as I was trying to learn Morse code via the Kotch method on my phone with earphones every day for a month at around 15 minutes per session and I can only translate two letters to paper as it suggests. Would it be better to learn the words or do I need to keep ploughing on and it will eventually sink in?

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Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:11 am
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
I would agree, 20wpm is too fast for the early learning process.

As has been said 15wpm character speed but with, 7 to 10wpm letter spacing. This gives you thinking time.

As you get more proficient, reduce the spacing (thinking time). The sound of the character remains the same.

It is the sound of the character that your brain learns to recognise, not how many dots and dashes it comprises.

With the spoken word, it's the sound of the word that we recognise, our brain doesn't analyse what individual letters it contains.

With Morse, you will come to recognise frequently use short words, without thinking about it. Again, it will be the sound of the word that your brain will translate, not necessarily it's individual characters.

Full on 20wpm is a bit too big a hurdle when starting from scratch, and will only cause frustration, and disappointment.

It will come with practice, but don't try to run before you can walk.

Good luck!!

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Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:12 am
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
ei2glb wrote:
Hi
Can you explain what the bit I highlighted means I don't understand what you mean??

Thanks
Trevor
EI2GLB


2E0JGR wrote:
OK, I am stumped as I was trying to learn Morse code via the Kotch method on my phone with earphones every day for a month at around 15 minutes per session and I can only translate two letters to paper as it suggests. Would it be better to learn the words or do I need to keep ploughing on and it will eventually sink in?


It suggested in the instructions that you should learn two letters at a time then set up a test system where by it sends the characters out audible and not visually. At the end of the test, it shows the characters that have been sent and you need to compare your notes to the on screen list of letters, this can also be done on the phone via the keyboard but that does not work well at all. From this, it gauges your accuracy and if you reach 90% or so then you add another two letters to the string and study again and the sequence continues.
I hope that explains what you were asking.

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Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:42 am
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
Everyone learns differently to some degree. For me I memorized the alphabet and numbers thinking di dah dah dit then started to spell out in my head car registrations, sign posts, street names etc as I drove around and could do that easily before I even listened to any morse
when i started to listen it didnt take long to get to 15 wpm receiving and sending a few weeks.
You may find you have to try several different methods till you find 1 that suits, also time of day has an effect the evening is the worst time, first thing after breakfast and just after lunch is good, your brain is alert and not wanting to shut down and watch Corrie.. GL OM

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Its not the class of licence the amateur holds thats important but the class of bias the prat applies to his amplifier


Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:21 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
Seems like I was trying to over do things, I set the WPM to 15 and increased the spacing to around 50WPM. I also realised I was trying to absorb the whole message sent when in fact it is comprised of 1-8 characters and it is each group that needs to be copied. Things are moving forward now and I just need to put more effort in, but that may be voided by the issue of current interference that Ofcom has basically said they will not deal with! If they find it to be the case. :cry:

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Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:21 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
Okay i will add my take on this.

John 20wpm is to fast start at 15wpm character speed, but with large gaps.

The way i learnt when i did my PMG along with others from all walks off life.

15wpm with large gaps as soon as we were getting 90% of the code the instructor shortened the gaps until we were
at a true 15wpm, he then gradually increased the speed to 27wpm, we were examined at 25wpm, 100% copy no receiving errors allowed.

There is nothuing wrong with writing it down.

When you miss a letter dont keep thinking about it as you will then miss the next several just go on to the next character.

Keep at it you will get their in the end just practice practice is all it takes.

Regards

Keith G0TSH

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Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:42 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
G0TSH wrote:
Okay i will add my take on this.

John 20wpm is to fast start at 15wpm character speed, but with large gaps.

The way I learnt when I did my PMG along with others from all walks of life.

15wpm with large gaps as soon as we were getting 90% of the code the instructor shortened the gaps until we were
at a true 15wpm, he then gradually increased the speed to 27wpm, we were examined at 25wpm, 100% copy no receiving errors allowed.

There is nothing wrong with writing it down.

When you miss a letter don't keep thinking about it as you will then miss the next several just go on to the next character.

Keep at it you will get there in the end just practice is all it takes.

Regards

Keith G0TSH

Thanks, Keith I am now moving forward and have just about mastered three letters comprising of 1-8 groups of these with 90% copy at 15wpm with around 25 spacing.

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John G Ritson CMH


Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:48 pm
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 Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cannot! 
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Post Re: Four weeks with around 15 minutes a day and I still cann
Sounds promising!!

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David. G4YVM


Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:52 pm
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