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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
GM1CMF wrote:
M0HJO wrote:

Well its like next weekend there is a 2M 25W contest that we took part in last year as "Cousin Jack's Contest Group" and did pretty well. Now I'm thinking what's the point if someone allowed to splatter across the whole band.

I can confirm he was reported to PW & RSGB with video evidence.

Then the RSGB gave him first prize :banghead: (backpackers)

What is the point...............................


And how are you going to hear a distant station + - 5khz of his signal who cant hear or aware he is so wide, perhaps an ESB portion of the band is needed just for him :lol:


You're not but he is.......precisely why he should've been disqualified WHETHER ACCIDENTAL OR NOT!

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Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:41 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
G0BHD wrote:
gw8asd wrote:
G4LNA wrote:
Blimey! We'll have the CB guys complaining soon :shock:

I'm afraid you will have to run that by me again.
What's the CB connection? :scratch:

Cheers

Tony

I assume if the station was low enough in "centre" frequency on 10 meters, his 400kHz splatter, either side of his transmission, was falling, on the lower side, within the UK 27/81 FM portion of CB?
I have to say, if it were truely a signal that wide, perhaps he should be marketing it to the authorities, as a "jammer"! :D


Well done Dave, that's exactly what I meant :good:

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Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:47 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
To clarify a few points raised above. I don't know the fella. But I did experience it on my FT221R. The clip seems to speak for itself and confirmed my experience, at least in my understanding.

So I decided to give the operator the chance to view the clip and do what ever may be needed. After the contest I emailed the operator in the clip pointing out the youtube clips using an email address they use on QRZ.com, this is the same email address they give on their RSGB contest entries, so I presume it was recieved. I never did receive a reply from the OP in the above clip, I have no way of knowing if the OP read / received it.

I also copied my email and clip to both the RSGB and PW contest adjudicators in the hope that they would look at it if this OP entered their contest (now it seems it was a vain hope). I was asked by the adjudicator of the PW contest what had I done about it during the contest. My honest answer was 'nothing because my only evidence during the contest was me. The clip on YouTube appeared afterwards and confirmed my experience'. The RSGB Contest Committee representative replied to the effect that it would be forwarded to the contest adjudicator.


Basically from the responses to me I conclude the adjudicators seem to be ignoring the clip and want on air action during the contest only. As I said before frankly I don't fancy the bun fight that could cause if the OP is of the wrong mindset.

If one of you knows this OP please approach him, I am not a great contester, but I like the fun on VHF / UHF and this is leaving a bad taste for quite a few of us. Currently I see little point in entering given whats been described here, unless of course I connect a massive linear to my Belcom Liner II then you'll see WIDE and wobbly :D

Seriously though, challenge on air and post a comment on your log submission. Or give up.

Andy

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Last edited by GD1MIP on Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:48 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
Quote:
The RSGB are, usually very hot on rules.


They are....sometimes annoyingly so.

We worked I4KYO in a 6M contest recently..he called me at 40 wpm and sent his locator as JN54KS..

Everyone else ( 3 others) logged it as KH and we got docked the points.

However upon listening back to the recording of the QSO he 100% sent it as KS,in fact he did it twice....which begs the question how many looked it up on QRZ having failed to copy the locator at 40 Wpm..and logged it as KH.

Of course if all three did then WE get docked the points for copying it correctly ! :banghead:


Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:50 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
M0HJO wrote:
Well its like next weekend there is a 2M 25W contest that we took part in last year as "Cousin Jack's Contest Group" and did pretty well. Now I'm thinking what's the point if someone allowed to splatter across the whole band.

I can confirm he was reported to PW & RSGB with video evidence.

Then the RSGB gave him first prize :banghead: (backpackers)

What is the point...............................

I don't know where you get 25W from? :scratch:
3W for backpackers, 10W for Hill Toppers.

Giving up isn't any sort of solution.

Anyone who hears a poor signal should point it out, repeatedly, if necessary.
I do and would expect others to tell me if I have a problem.

That particular station is close to me and has given me problems in the past.
It's been pointed out and he's made adjustments.
Still not been brilliant but I've managed well enough to consistently get better points.

The RSGB go to the trouble of site inspections, in some contests, so it's a bit odd that, seemingly, nothing has been done about this.

I say, seemingly, as, of course, none of us know if the adjudicators have issued a warning, or not.

Cheers

Tony

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Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:05 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
gw8asd wrote:
I don't know where you get 25W from? :scratch:
3W for backpackers, 10W for Hill Toppers.

"Yes its the 10W hill toppers, not sure where I got 25W from"
I say, seemingly, as, of course, none of us know if the adjudicators have issued a warning, or not.

"Well he got issued first place"


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Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:40 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
Tony makes a valid point re 'none of us know if the adjudicators have issued a warning, or not'
How public you make your investigation is an eternal problem for any person upholding rules. I want an answer to my complaint but the adjudicator/s may well either feel it's non of my business or even be prevented from sharing their decision by rules of some sort. I understand that.

But as I see it, the OP has ignored my email and the adjudicator/s have not shared a result of any kind with me so I presume they decided my complaint is of no concern in this case. Of course the OP may never have read my mail and the adjudicator/s may have acted.

As I see it I put my head above the wall provided evidence and got ignored.

No sour grapes on my score, our entry was a picnic with a bit of radio. Its a miracle we managed to make the contacts we did. I am only 'miffed' because to me rules should be adhered to.

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Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:33 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
Today I recieved a reply from the contest committee as below,

Hi Andy
Thanks for the email.
I can confirm that the adjudicator did see your email. However, no entrants made any comments regarding G?????'s signal on their entries. Also, as far as we can tell, no comments were made on air to G????? as he logged no comments.
The contest committee takes a poor signal quality very seriously. The example I would quote is that of a high scoring station who had their score reduced in the adjudication by 15% in a major contest in 2012 (for a first offence) because of the poor quality of their signal. For action to be taken it is essential that entrants report the problems to the offending station and note that they have in their log. It is then incumbent on the offending station to: attempt to rectify the problem; and to note the comments and any action taken in his log. Without these actions the committee has little evidence to act on.
I hope that clarifies the situation.
I have deleted the authors name and the callsigns as I felt that best to prevent potential upset, I replied

thanks for getting back to me. My reply is delayed as I have been away from home. I accept and understand all your points below.
I would just ask the following, did the adjudicator advise G????? of my concern? I ask because I have emailed him using the email he provides on QRZ.com and the RSGB contests page, but he has not replied. I therefore conclude either he has not read my mail and is unaware of the problem (hence can't rectify any issues) or is ignoring me.
Thanks for your time Andy GD1MIP

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Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:54 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
I have heard him in conversation since and he is obviously aware of the situation.

He was telling the station he was in QSO with that no one had made it clear to him that there was a problem, during the contest, and therefore was unaware.

I think this strengthens the point that people should be taken to task immediately and that it should be mentioned when entries are submitted.
It shouldn't be left to one individual to pass comment.
Anyone who experiences a problem should make the offender aware.

I try to encourage people to put in an entry, or check log, even if they are only working a few stations.
It gives an opportunity to pass these sorts of comments and also demonstrates the level of interest.

Cheers

Tony - now off to 70cm UKAC. :D

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Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:40 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
gw8asd wrote:
I have heard him in conversation since and he is obviously aware of the situation.

He was telling the station he was in QSO with that no one had made it clear to him that there was a problem, during the contest, and therefore was unaware.

I think this strengthens the point that people should be taken to task immediately and that it should be mentioned when entries are submitted.
It shouldn't be left to one individual to pass comment.
Anyone who experiences a problem should make the offender aware.

I try to encourage people to put in an entry, or check log, even if they are only working a few stations.
It gives an opportunity to pass these sorts of comments and also demonstrates the level of interest.

Cheers


Tony - now off to 70cm UKAC. :D



I personally think it incumbent on any station to ensure their signal is clean and not causing excessive interference and if information to the contrary is brought to the attention of contest organisers they should act on that premise alone.......I mean why on earth would the offending party even admit it being brought to his attention either over the air or perhaps an email read during the contest when such an admission would see him penalised?
There's no disputing from the screen shots this station was causing interference whether deliberate or not and gained an advantage from it, a penalty should have been imposed.

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Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:01 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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"Without these actions the committee has little evidence to act on"

So a clear as day VIDEO is no good then! :banghead:

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Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:16 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
M0HJO wrote:
"Without these actions the committee has little evidence to act on"

So a clear as day VIDEO is no good then! :banghead:


No but I bet the next one I record will if his act is not cleaned up, backed up with every man and his dog I can find who agrees and complains to him.

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Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:31 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
G0UWK wrote:
M0HJO wrote:
"Without these actions the committee has little evidence to act on"

So a clear as day VIDEO is no good then! :banghead:


No but I bet the next one I record will if his act is not cleaned up, backed up with every man and his dog I can find who agrees and complains to him.


I think the term is "Its not what you know, its who you blow"

Its just a bloody sham, clear as day video. What is better: Tom, Dick and Harrys comments in a log entry or a clear as day video!!

Bloody disgrace!

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Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:57 pm
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
M0HJO wrote:
"Without these actions the committee has little evidence to act on"

So a clear as day VIDEO is no good then! :banghead:

It would seem that they simply dont want to be "mithered" by having to do anything about it from their response!
I agree with above, if a video showing a spectrum analysis of their terrible signal, accompanied by their own voice, giving their callsign, is'nt enough evidence, God only knows what constitutes a "cut and dry" case in their eyes! :rolleyes:

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Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:57 am
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 Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest 
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Post Re: Forget the quality feel the W I D T H PW 2m contest
G0UWK wrote:
M0HJO wrote:
"Without these actions the committee has little evidence to act on"

So a clear as day VIDEO is no good then! :banghead:


No but I bet the next one I record will if his act is not cleaned up, backed up with every man and his dog I can find who agrees and complains to him.

You've got it right there, Ian.

M0HJO wrote:

I think the term is "Its not what you know, its who you blow"

I see no evidence that the person concerned has any connection with, or influence over, the contest committee.
M0HJO wrote:
Its just a bloody sham, clear as day video. What is better: Tom, Dick and Harrys comments in a log entry or a clear as day video!!

Bloody disgrace!

The point they make is that, unless the operator was told at the time, and a note made of the fact, the operator "could" be blissfully unaware of the problem.
Do you penalise someone for that?
A difficult one.
G0BHD wrote:
M0HJO wrote:
"Without these actions the committee has little evidence to act on"

So a clear as day VIDEO is no good then! :banghead:

It would seem that they simply dont want to be "mithered" by having to do anything about it from their response!
I agree with above, if a video showing a spectrum analysis of their terrible signal, accompanied by their own voice, giving their callsign, is'nt enough evidence, God only knows what constitutes a "cut and dry" case in their eyes! :rolleyes:

The problem with the video is that it doesn't demonstrate that the operator was aware of the problem.
If the video had shown him being contacted, and told of the problem, then evidence that he had continued, I suspect the outcome might have been different.
It's a question I'll be asking at the contest forum, at the convention.

As for Gerrys comment about it being "incumbent on any station to ensure their signal is clean and not causing excessive interference", I completely agree.
However, even I don't sit with my spectrum analyser wired into the particular radio I'm using at any particular time.
Certainly not when out portable.
I hope, and expect, to be informed by others if there is a problem.

In fact, without someone else telling you, how many on here own even rudimentary test equipment?

I in no way condone poor signals, just putting things into perspective.

At least, unlike some signals, it would appear this is a fault, rather than some attempt at "improving the audio", which is another local source of annoyance. :rolleyes:

I wasn't local, for the last UKAC, so I don't know if there was a problem.
However, it might just be related to portable operation, or running at reduced power.
I'll have to work out how to video stuff. :)

Then I can be a proper band policeman.
Something we need more of, to adequately self police the amateur bands.

Cheers

Tony

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Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:57 am
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