I must admit that when ham radio was suggested to me that I thought the airwaves would be full of chatter but I've been scanning the VHF and UHF frequencies but have heard very little.

My experience so far is that I've heard the RSGB news bulletin, I can hear the airport ATC comms and a few calls over the last couple of months which have always been very focussed on ham hardware geekness (not a derogatory term as I'm certainly a self confessed geek in many areas). But, is that it?
Without going to HF, is this all that I can expect?

How often would you expect to hear a contact from a ham?

I'm not (yet) 'into' ham radio hardware and I'd feel like a fish out of water if I was to get involved in a conversation so I've avoided doing so, so far.
Honestly, I'm not sure what I was expecting but I think I may be in a particularly quiet area.

Down here lack of vhf and uhf activity has become the norm.
The only time things liven up is during contests.
There is the odd chat between retired hams during the day but I'd put the vhf and uhf usage as about 1hr of voice a week across the whole band.

HF is completely different.

Talking on the radio isn't all amateur radio has to offer.
Making stuff and experimenting is where 99.9% of my radio time is spent. Haven't spoken to anyone in air for months.

If you want to hear more on vhf and uhf , check out the rsgb contest calendar , the vhf/uhf one and set time aside to be listening during one.

Also, concentrate on getting your antenna as high as possible, using the best coax you can afford.
At vhf and uhf, these two changes make all the difference.
Also, on SSB, a horizontally polarised antenna will give you a 3db advantage. If you can't put up a directional beam, try a clover leaf or big wheel antenna.
Easy to make, I've just finished making one for 2m.

Oh, and contact your local Club as there should be plenty of people keen to help out.

Edit: big tip when making stuff... even if it doesn't look like it will work , try it anyway..... oh and construction of antennas can look like a complete bodge up but work perfectly.

Thanks, that's pretty helpful in terms of expectation.
From that I expect that, nearer Glasgow, there may be even less activity than in your area.

I honestly am wondering if the quick migration to HF is worth the expenditure but it may well be for more activity.

That depends on your expectations and interests.

As said above, on air activity is only a part of amateur radio, for me a very small part.

There are other things like antennas to think about, mostly influenced by garden size.

And what mode/s would you want to work?

Even in the boom times of the 80s 2m in this part of the world has never been that busy on the air. A little more traffic on GB3CS in the morning and and at going home time and a few simplex channels. Squeekies have always been an issue. 2m SSB was down to small but reasonable active number of enthusiast usually at the weekend.

HF these days seems a lot quieter with far too much activity at the 'get rich quick' FT8 end of the band with little challenge and bingo caller QSOs on SSB elsewhere. Essentially little different to the rubber stamp QSOs on FT8. but taking less time. I personally like inter UK QSOs on 40M where you've got a chance of a rag chew.

No idea where the dozens of MM3/MM6 my club have put though the exams have gone, as they are never heard of again. On the odd occasion I've listened to 11m it's even quieter so they are not all going there.

Despite its critics DMR/D-Star/C4FM via MMDVM repeaters QSO's are usually a lot more interesting as they usually don't just exchange numbers.

Indeed Len.
i found that try everything till you find your ideal niche.
For me it was tinkering with wire antennas and talking inter UK on 40m, and doing special event stations,
And over the years operating /P. Also found i like datamode PSK31/63.
Now i eaffle on 40m about radio, heritage railways, sci fi and digital photography or any subject i know something about.
73,
Mark.

To be honest, what you observe is largely down to what effort you put into the station.
I've been pretty well exclusively operated 6M to 13cm, with very occasional visits to lower frequencies. The last time being over a year ago.

My observations don't relate to repeaters, as I don't use them, and the only time I use FM is for the contests.
70cm is relatively quiet and, as with 23/13cm, activity outside of contests is generally the result of observing good conditions on 2M and migrating up the bands.
Generally there's activity on 2M. Be it SSB, or the various data modes.
Aircraft, or meteor scatter and FT8 tropo/ES

There are active station in the Glasgow area and I regularly, and reliably, work up towards Aberdeen.
That's around 400km from here.

Good antennas, at reasonable height, low loss feeder and patience are important.

Cheers

Tony

I had my Sharmans X-50 antenna on my garage roof with a 3m RG8 cable (PL259 to PL259) into the garage and a 3m SO239 to SMA Pigtail Extension onto my handheld UV-5RT and the reception of signals was reasonable. (better than handheld at least)

As an improvement, I had the antenna mounted on the house roof via 25m RG58 low loss (PL259 to PL259) to my garage and again used the SO239 to SMA Extension however the reception of signals is now poorer than the UV-5RT with the small whip antenna.

Could the attenuation through the 28m of cable be so bad that it causes this?

Thanks

Paul

Yes.
25 metres of RG58 will drop approximately 60% over the length at 2 metres.
If the 3 metre pigtail is of the RG174 variety, that will lose approximately 20% of signal.

Thanks for the reply.

Well "oh fiddlesticks!" I'm sure you heard me say.
It sounds like I've just paid to make my reception worse than it was before.

I'm guessing this will be similarly as bad at 70cm?

Is the only option to put it back on the garage to shorten the cable length or are there alternatives?

(you can tell I'm new to this stuff I think)

70cm would be even worse.
RG58 is not low loss at VHF or above.
Anything more than 10M is not recommended.

RG213 or better is usually the minimum spec for VHF and above for 25M.

But.... do you need all of the 25M? ie: are you just using all of it because that is the length it was when purchased?
If only 8M is need to reach to antenna, then shorten the cable.

The UV5R is at the bottom end of receiver sensitivity so a proper amateur radio receiver would be better.

Another option if you only receive, is a simple preamp fitted at the antenna end of the coax, not the radio end.
This would negate the losses of the coax.
A preamp would require a separate power supply.

One possibility is that there is a fault with the antenna/coax.
Test by , turn on radio without an antenna, then connect the antenna.
Does the background noise increase when you connect the antenna?
If it doesn't then there is a problem somewhere.

Edit: If you upgrade your coax, don't buy W103 Westflex, although it's losses are initially good, it degrades very quickly and is one of the worst coaxial cables out there for attaching connectors.

Thanks for that. That's very useful information.

I have a small loop of cable within the garage from the 25m length but only around 2m so I expect that shortening that isn't going to make a great deal of difference so upgrading the cable may be required.

Point taken about the UV5R. I purchased 2 of these as we are often outdoors rather than at a static base and also I wasn't sure how much interest I had in the hobby but I think I'll try a proper fixed base station receiver.

As the antenna on the house roof, powering a pre-amp would not be straightforward.

I will try your testing the background noise suggestion.

Thanks
Paul

A preamp at the masthead is usually powered up the coax, so it's not a problem.
VHF, and up, is all about minimising losses, improving signal to noise, and maximising gain.
So, ideally, large antenna, very low loss cable, masthead preamp etc.
Obviously, there are limits, both physical and financial.

I rarely use FM, my main operating being SSB, MS, FT8. Some of the SSB being assisted by AS.
With reasonable beam antennas, and low loss cable, I can reliably work 400km, or more, on 2M/70cm. Even with 10W on 23cm.

If it's local chats you're after then FM is probably fine but you still need the antenna as high as possible and low loss coax.
With a handhelds a preamp is unlikely to help as it will probably show up receiver selectivity flaws and overload issues, and you're only transmitting low power anyway.

Cheers

Tony

Paul,
I don't disagree with anything that's been mentioned so far, but despite a 50% signal loss from the co-axial feed I'll still expect that to be mitigated by the increased signal from the antenna location. For it to be inferior to the hand held whip at ground level sounds wrong.
Can you reach the antenna from a ladder or is it inaccessible? I'd be trying the antenna with a shorter feed fed into a bedroom window, of just into the radio whilst on the ladder.
As an aside, when tinkering around I've used satellite co-ax on VHF with good results. Yes the impedance is wrong, but its low loss and very cheap.

The noise is exactly the same with and without the antenna connected.



I will try to access the antenna with the ladder and connect the handheld closer to see if that appears to resolve it.



I'm restricted with my foundation licence to transmitting at 10w anyway and the UV5RT will transmit at 1, 4 and 8 watts but with the antenna gain (4.5db at 2m, 7.5db at 70cm) I'd need to stick to the 1w setting or it'd be over the limit. (and I have to admit I haven't even transmitted once yet lol)

I think,
First step is to try it up the ladder,
Second, replace the cable,
Third, buy a cheap used transceiver and related gubbins